Wednesday, November 05, 2008

Silver Lining.

This morning brings mixed emotions for everyone I know. Personally we are elated, I feel excited about what's in store for this country. The speech that our President- elect gave last night, gave me chills. And to be fair, McCains speech was also very good (and not just because he conceded.)

After this post, I'm going to try to be done with politics, at least for a while. The decision that we made was the right decision for our family, for the issues that matter most to us. I realize that every person and family is different and because of that, there are some very un-happy people right now, just as I would have been if the outcome was reversed. What I truly cannot understand and maybe someone can clarify for me is this:

It seems as if the majority of the McCain supporters I know are extremely religious people. I cannot tell you how many comments I have seen and heard that are bringing God into the election. People have prayed for McCain to win, they are asking for God to have mercy on us because Obama won.... I recently received an email suggesting that Obama is the beast that Revelation talks about, and the next 4 years will be the beginning of the end. If that is truly the belief then isn't this all part of God's plan? If this is truly your belief system, then shouldn't you be happy that you are that much closer to your "real home?" That much closer to taking your seat in heaven next to God? Wouldn't this suggest that God's will is being done? The way I see it is, for those that truly believe that, it's a win/win. If you are wrong, then that means Obama is doing a fantastic job. If you are right, then that means your journey on this earth is done and that God has called you home. There is absolutely nothing you can do to stop this process if it is Gods will. It's going to happen, whether it's now or a hundred years from now.

Don't you think that this morning there are people all of this country thanking the same God for answering their prayers?

It's all very deep here this morning, I realize. But the flood of anti-christ, Muslim terrorist emails I've received have really made me think. Not a single person I know that voted for or supported Obama sent one email degrading McCain, or telling completely fabricated stories about him. I'm sure they are out there and that they have circulated, I'm just saying that I haven't seen any, nor would I dream of sending something so absurd. Why is it so one-sided?

I personally am thankful for un-answered prayers. I am thankful that the Americans that have complained about this administration, this war, and this economy got out there and made something happen. People voted, people shouted yesterday that it's time for a change and they took action. I am proud, truly proud.


Heather S. said...

Deep thoughts. Really smart way to look at it. I know my prayers were answered last night!

Average Joe American said...

I don't fear what will happen if Obama is the antichrist. I fear what will happen if hes not...

AUbiegirl01 said...

Well said! I am a Christian and voted for Obama. I did what you said...I had to go for what is best for me and my family. I hate to say it, but the bottom line is most likely still a racial thing for a lot of people. That's what makes me sad. That's my opinion.

BlessedMom said...

I completely agree. Somehow people have found it appropriate to believe that Republican = Christian and Democrat = non-Christian.

I had to break down each issue and really evaluate my feelings toward them. Ultimately, my being Christian and a Republican didn't equal a "hill of beans" when it came down to voting time.

Shouldn't we all just be praying for a happier place to raise our children???

TK said...

OK, I am going to say my piece and then I am going to be done. First of all, I know all too well that if it is your time to go, there is nothing ANYONE can do about it. I just hope that if it is your time, your name will be written in The Lambs Book of Life! Secondly, I do feel that God has a hand in everything, meaning there is a reason that Obama won, and I will still support my country. I look forward to the day that I get to be right next to God and see Jeremy again! However, the thing is this. If it is God's will, no one can change that. The scary thing to most of "these religious people" is that a man that clearly does not believe in God will run our nation. And that is what it boils down to. And maybe our country was not built on faith, but it has been established on faith. So yes, I realize that some things were extreme, on both sides, but for me personally, faith is the most important thing in my life, therefore leading me not to vote for Obama. Not that I every agreed that either candidate was great choice, but like you, just the better for my family and beliefs. For all you Obama supporters, good for you. I will join you in supporting our country and putting our differences aside. Change is needed, but our country should come first, and both of those things can happen with God! As for me and the people I know that supported McCain, it is certainly not a racial thing, for heaven sakes. Like you said, many people you know that supported McCain were very religious people, and bottom line, I think that is what it comes down to.

I'm a Mom!..? said...

See I guess this is where I get confused. First of all, who are we to say that he does not believe in God, only he truly knows his faith and heart. Secondly, I do not want the leader of this Country leading us based on his/her religious beliefs. Hence, the separation of church and state. When you have a world leader leading based on his religious views you are on a very slippery slope. One should have nothing to do with the other.

Average Joe American said...

That is a common misconception. Neither the constitution nor the bill of rights, nor the declaration of independence mentions anything even close to "separation of church and state". The actual text reads:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

Let me translate. Congress shall not pass a law requiring citizens to be a certain religion, nor prohibit you from practicing any religion you want.
It was NEVER intended to prohibit our leaders from using judeo-christian values to decide wrong from right and lead us in the right direction.

random_mommy said...

I told Husband about this conversation yesterday... and he said that you were supersmart. I said "Aww! That's sweet!" Then he said, "I'm a Mom is WAY smarter than you."

He takes one step forward, 3 steps back.

This post is right on and well written to boot.

I'm a Mom!..? said...

American Joe - if this is the translation then it requires a little more research on my part -- I will maintain that a separation of the 2 is a good thing. In regards to right and wrong according to Christian values again I say is a slippery slope. I am looking for a President, not a spiritual leader. The thought that people voted based solely on his religious beliefs blows my mind. Especially when their information is completely false.

RM - I'm so not smarter than you, I just had a moment of clarity while waiting on my burger!! In fact, aren't you schooled on this church and state issue? I know we have discussed it together, help me here.

Leslie said...

I'll admit that I have some big concerns about Obama. I'll also admit that I can see some positives to him being president. What better role model for young black men--a man, married to one woman, raising a family, supporting them, well-groomed and well spoken. That alone is something that is admirable, and not common in many role models today. I wouldn't vote for someone based on this, but I'd call it my silver lining today.

Average Joe--thanks for saying what I was thinking.

Kelly said...

Average Joe doesn't quite have his history right. You have to look at the creation of the United States within it's historical context.

The world was going through a type of second Renaissance at the time. The founding fathers were actually great men of reason and prided themselves on that. They placed reason above faith as the argument for embarking on our nation's quest for independence. In fact more than half of the signers of our Constitution were not Christians at all...some were athiests and many were agnostics or freemasons.

Evidence of this can be seen in the changes made from the first draft of the Declaration of Independence to the final draft. It was changed from "we hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable" to "we hold these truths to be self-evident."

The Committee of Five, which was a committee formed to help edit the document decided to change the wording from "sacred" to "self-evident" because they felt the word sacred had too much of a religious connotation. It's clear in many peripheral letters and documents that were written later, that REASON was to be the basis of argument for the formation of a new nation, not faith.

Later, Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptists where he attempted to explain the reasoning behind the inclusion of this part of the First Amendment.

In this letter he said, "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

That is where the phrase comes from and he makes it rather clear in this letter that it was the intention behind this addition in the first amendment.

Anonymous said...

I'm also hoping that in addition to being a role model, maybe some of the racial tension will ease up. We would not be having a black president if he had not been voted in by the whites as well as the blacks. I wish I could feel at ease about all this.
Much love,
Your Aunt
I thought your post was very well written.

Average Joe American said...

The knowledge of right and wrong, good and evil is given by God. Without God's direction there is no reason to choose right, fair actions. How can a man be expected to govern rightly and justly without a frame of reference. Its like a carpenter without a level and square. What good if you gain the whole world and lose your soul?

I'm a Mom!..? said...

K-Mom!! It's so funny you posted, your name came up today when this topic was brought up - I was coming to you with questions!! Thanks.

random_mommy said...

I wish I was more schooled... K-mom to the rescue!!

Average Joe,
If you didn't have your religion would you then go rape/kill/steal? Is your religion what's stopping you? I do think we need a frame of reference, but God isn't the only one. Some people are good simply because they want to be good and because they see how much they impact the world.

Average Joe American said...

You misunderstand the point I was making. I AGREE with you on the fact that the government was intended to be run free of religious bias. The point I mas making is that a good leader will have a frame of reference from which to lead. A moral compass so to speak. Do you think a person who doesn't know right from wrong will be a good leader? Is Osama Bin Laden a good leader? There is no denying that judeo christian values make good leaders. Things like the golden rule, respect for your fellow man, standing up for the oppressed, Faith, Honor, truthfullness, loyalty, These are the characteristics of a good leader. The knowledge of right from wrong is what keeps people from anarchy and lawlessness not "religion". It is the "divine spark" that separates us from the animals. The devine spark comes from God.

I'm a Mom!..? said...

I don't think I agree, that's saying that people are only good because they believe in God/divine spark. There are plenty of Atheists in the world that are good people and have never felt the spark and plenty of Christians out there that ignore it and aren't good people. Just because you don't believe in God does not mean that you don't know the difference between right and wrong.

I think you can have a sound moral compass no matter what your beliefs are. Atheist and Agnostic included.

Average Joe American said...

I didn't say you have to believe in God to have the "devine spark" it is a trait of the human race. We are all decended from adam, therefore we were created in God's image. Unfortunately people can be influenced by satan and ignore what their soul knows to be true. How would it be fair that tribes in africa that have never heard of Jesus would go to hell. It is the Devine spark that tells everyone that there is a higher power. Call it the holy spirit if you wish. The still small voice that tells you no matter what your predicament that you are not alone. It is that inner knowledge that God exists he gave to all humans that is our saving grace. How is it that every culture on earth has some belief in a higher power than themself. You may choose to acknowledge God or not, either way God will be acknowledged.

-"I tell you, if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out" Luke 19:40

Kelly said...

American Joe,

Did you know that almost 45% of Americans identify themselves as a religion other than Christian? Let's just say, for the sake of argument, that a person of another religion was voted into public office? Would you feel comfortable if he/she brought those personal beliefs to bare on their decisions regarding public policy that might directly effect you and your family?

I'm going to shock you by saying, you just MIGHT be okay with it because Christianity is not the only religion to teach and encourage its followers to practice the simple tenets of what was it? "the golden rule, respect for your fellow man, standing up for the oppressed, Faith, Honor, truthfulness and loyalty."

I encourage you to educate yourself on religions other than your own. You might be surprised how many share these common tenets. In fact, you would be AMAZED to learn how very similar many religions actually are.

Other than that, there isn't much I can say to you because you're not coming from a place of're coming from a place of personal faith which you have deemed to be superior than all others.

I would caution you, though, that's an argument built on shifting sand. You don't want me to list examples of Judeo-Christian politicians who failed to uphold the simple tenets of "the golden rule, respect for your fellow man, standing up for the oppressed, Faith, Honor, truthfulness and loyalty" while holding public office because frankly, I could go all day.

In fact, on a dare, I could take each of the tenets you listed and find you an example of a Judeo-Christian leader who has violated one or all of them in the last 90 days.

Anonymous said...

I thought as Christians we are supposed to strive for perfection, but because we are human, sometimes we fail. We probably all have things that we are not particularly proud of. I am happy that I am not a public figure or people might delight in my many short comings as well.
This is a very interesting post and hard to tear myself away.
Your Aunt

Anonymous said...

Hate to stir the pot so to speak but in the spark of the anitchrist conversation I was curious if any of you saw the IL lotto numbers. From Obama's own state in the pick 3 for November 5th 2008, the day after the election come the numbers 6-6-6. First off can you even imagine the odds of these numbers being drawn? Much less the day that Obama is claimed to be the next president of the united states? I hope for everyone's sake that is just a coinsidence and not a sign from a higher power. I honestly hope that Obama can do great things for this country but I am afraid that in my heart I know better. Just as you can feel a physco around your kids or a mothers six sense I feel Obama will be nothing but bad for us. Again, I hope this feeling is false and I mean no disrespect, these are simple my own feelings.

Average Joe American said...

You know I keep explaining my view and you keep misunderstanding my position. Let me be extremely clear so you are sure to understand. I DO NOT CARE WHAT RELIGION YOU ARE AS LONG AS YOU HAVE A CORRECT MORAL COMPASS OF RIGHT AND WRONG AND BASE YOUR DECISIONS ON THAT. I would not have any problem with a believer in any PEACEFUL religion being president. I have no problems with catholics, mormons, buddist, or any other PEACFUL religion. I do however have problems with islamic facists who seek to destroy all that oppose them. America if a country of freedoms and if you want to worship a paper bag thats cool with me. As long as you believe that the paper bag wants you to be a good person and treat others fairly and justly I dont care if your president. Athiests always point out that professing "christians" have failed and made mistakes. Well let me point you to a simple truth. PEOPLE AREN'T PERFECT. If they were Jesus would not have had to die for our sins. The point is, you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and try not to screw up again. It's called GRACE. You seem like an educated person who has read alot of books. Heres some suggested reading for you:
The BIBLE - God
The Ten Commandments - God
Any good bookstore should have them.

Jennifer said...

Try living in the Deep, Dark South, in the reddest of the red states!! Someone stole the "Soccer Mom for Obama" bumper sticker right off the back of my car. I asked someone to cover a volunteer shift at school on Tuesday and she couldn't because she had committed to "pray at church about the election." I'm a practicing Catholic, which means I go to church on more than just Easter and Christmas, but I find it very hard to believe that God has nothing better to do right now than sit around and tinker with our election. People, check out the misery in Africa right now!! Or in the Middle East. Or anywhere other than your own milk white suburbs. They have problems. We are blessed beyond all reason and I highly doubt the outcome of this election is going to significantly change that.
Whew, sorry this comment was so long!! Nice blog!!

Poodlehead said...

HOLY CRAP! First of all, 20 responses? I didn't want to be left out. Second, who knew K-Mom was so freaking smart????

I always knew she was smart - in a roundabout genius sort of way, but wow! I need to hang out with her more and just sit and absorb. Let's have a MNO where she sits in the middle of a circle and talks to us :)

I'm a Mom!..? said...

Yes she is very smart!! Someone I want on my side in a debate for sure...

I also want to throw this out there, I am truly enjoying reading the views that are put up here by both sides - please do not take anything I say here to be hurtful or with ill intent, I truly am trying to understand why so many people feel the need to form an alliance between religion and politics.

As far as the bible is concerned, you have to understand that there are people in this country that hold it to have just as much merit as the Twilight Saga or any other fictional story.

And I maintain that if this truly is the "end of the world" if you are saved and know your heart, you have absolutely nothing to worry about... Nothing. You will be safe in the hands of the Lord. He is in control and no matter what Obama is or isn't, does or doesn't do is not in our hands anyway. It never was.